[kaffe] Kaffe(VM) is obsolte! *please read, some very interresting suggestions*

Linuxhippy linuxhippy at web.de
Tue Jan 7 05:44:02 PST 2003

Hi there!

I dont want to FUD kaffe-folks, but please think a bit about my ideas
why developing kaffe is a waste of time.

Kaffe is not powerful enough to be a java-replacement, in many part gcj
beats kaffe in both, performance and plenarity.
But GCJ has not those features, which so many people like on Java: No
linker problems!
There a three different Classpath implementations on the "market". First
theres the GNU-Classpath implementation (I think this is the most
useful, because every VM can use it without big effort), the
Kaffe-Implementation and then the GCJ implementation.

Please do not misunderstand me! I think a free Java-Enviroment is
absolutly needed!
But I think it would be better to concertrate all developer-recources
onto one or two projects instead of developing ten or more different not
java-compatible VMs with their own CLasspath!

My suggestion would be to develop the Java-Interface of Mono instead of
wasting recources in developing so many different JVMs!

Of course, I hate .NET and C#, because I think those technics are made
for detroying Linux and make the programmes dependent on MS.
But on the other hand, I think it would be a big chance for Linux and
all the other free OS's to cath up with "binary-compytibility" to
MS-Winodws(.NET). WINE tried this a very long time ago, and was never
ready for critical use, because all the Winddows-APIS and MFC were so
big und undokumented, that it was simply impossible to implement the
whole shit...

But please imagine all the the benefits a merge to mono would bring!
I'll list all stuff that I can imagine:

1.) More time to add new classes / Maybe we could make a 1:1 merge with
GNU-Classpath (GNUCL.->Kaffe/Kaffe->GNUCl) so both project would profit.
Kaffe would be able to use all those new classes which GNUCL. provides
and GNUCl. would be able to include some missing classes from the old

Maybe this would let us the time to finitely ake a SWING-Replacement!

2.) The Java-Part would  benefit of all optimisations that will be done
on the mono-platform!
I think mono will be much more optimized than its now, because it simply
will be the only way to run .NET-Apps (and ASP.NET!!!) under Linux and
it has the power to fill this whole! (Instead of wine!)
As I've heard some time ago mono is now about 15% faster that Kaffe...

3.) I dont think that Kaffe will be very sucessful in the way like its
now used and developed... It will be only used by GNU-Masochists and in
embedded machines. Not a great future...

But with the integration into mono, it would be able to run kaffe-code
on every mono-platform (and you'll see, mono will grow, I'm sure!).
Hmm,  dont like the idea, that .NET is from MS and that its simply a
copy of java mixed with some new and old technics, but I i think its
netherless an interresting platform!

4.) Everybody will benefit on JIT optimisations!
If a kaffe-developer is able to make the mono-jit faster, it will be
useful for all other mono-languages too!

.NET is in, Java is out.
You know, thats completly nonsense, but it seems that many users (and
even developers!) think like this.
Some of them use C#, because they think .NET will become the new
standard. But if we would be able to provide them a useable and fast
java-implementation (swing is really needed!!), I'm sure they'll soon
notice that it is also .NET and so much nicer and much less dependent on

About me:
"Somebody must be really stupid, to write such stuff in
Tannenbaum-style" ;-)
O.K, I understand everybody who thinks like this.
I'm very provokativ, I know, sorry...

In reality, I'm very interrested in helping Java on Linux! Its still not
accepted by linux developers, although it would decrase security-holes,
bugs and much development-time!

Please feel free to tell me, what you think ybout my idea!
Even If you can only tell me contras ;-)

If there are some interrested people, and those would help me, maybe we
could start a new kaffe/mono-merging project?
Any suggestions?

I hope you're not too angry with me, I'm an stupid schoolboy....
Mfg Linuxhippy

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