[kaffe] Re: kaffe Digest, Vol 34, Issue 5

Sakur Sakur.deagod at gmail.com
Tue Mar 27 04:18:38 PDT 2007

Hi,Jim Pick:
      When seeing the touched post from you,I can't help to reveal my 
thought toward Kaffe developer community!
       I'v been using Kaffe for almost two years ,although not even 
contributing to the source. As you mentioned below, Kaffe is almost like 
a tree growing bigger and bigger,now  I just couldn't build it directly 
without checking what the conf script really does :). 
    *   * That said, I think Kaffe has been a seminal project in terms 
of getting free Java off the ground, and I'd hate to see it die. A lot 
of** interesting projects have used Kaffe as a starting point.
      I think  this community needs more inspiring discussion about 
Kaffe not Kaffe JVM,like what Kaffe could bring to life, isn't it ? 
Kaffe is actually a icebreaker into Java world,which requires  those 
honest developers like Dalibor  ,as well as more explorers  like those 
who always raise curious discussions here or there.
P.S:  I see Dalibor will be present on JavaOne 2007. It would be nice to 
hear voice from Kaffe there.


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> Today's Topics:
>    1. Future directions for Kaffe (Jim Pick)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:37:48 -0700
> From: Jim Pick <jim at kaffe.org>
> Subject: [kaffe] Future directions for Kaffe
> To: kaffe at kaffe.org
> Message-ID: <46074E1C.5090801 at kaffe.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Hi everybody,
> It's been a quiet month on the mailing list so far.  That's partly my
> fault, I think, since the mailing list was broken for some time.
> It looks like the last CVS commit was 5 weeks ago.
> I see Dalibor went to FOSDEM, and did some talking about Kaffe there.
> So I'm assuming that the project isn't dead, it's just somewhat dormant.
>  It's been somewhat dead/dormant throughout much of it's history, but
> it's still here, isn't it?  :-)
> And clearly, all the free Java runtimes and Classpath are in a state of
> transition, as we wait for Sun to release the rest of OpenJDK.
> I'd like to liven up the list a bit, and maybe start a bit of discussion
> on where Kaffe should go next.
> Here are some things I'd like to talk about:
> * I definitely need to do some work on upgrading the server, and fixing
> up the website.  Currently it's running a really old version of Debian,
> so it needs to be upgraded.  I'm just scared of all the breakage that
> will happen.  I'm slowly building up my hosting capabilities, but it's
> just a hobby, and I have real life things going on, so I move at a
> glacial pace.  If anybody wants to help out with any of that, I'd really
> appreciate it.  I happy to keep hosting it indefinitely.
> * I think a wiki running on top of Kaffe would be really nice.  :-)
> * On the other hand, there are establishing free software hosting
> platforms like Sourceforge, Savannah, Google Code, etc. that might
> work better than just running everything on our own server.  Our current
> infrastructure is pretty much still using technology from the 1990s.  We
> don't even have a blog or a wiki, or any continuous integration or
> distributed version control.  I'm open to migrating things if that's
> what people would prefer.
> * Technically speaking, I'm still the project leader, by virtue of
> rescuing it from the ashes of Transvirtual.  But Dalibor is really the
> guy who has been doing most of the work.  I'm not really doing much with
> Kaffe personally, so if anybody else wants to step up and be a real
> project leader, feel free to volunteer.  I'm still happy to keep hosting
> the project and helping out with the releases.
> * Speaking of releases, we really should do another release sometime.
> * I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't even have Kaffe running on my
> new MacBook under OS X.  I got it to compile, but I couldn't get it to
> even run "Hello World".  If I spent some time on it, I imagine I could
> figure it out.  I just haven't spent the time.  I hope it still runs OK
> on Linux, but I haven't tried that recently either.
> * I also haven't been responding to emails asking me for help getting
> Kaffe to run.  I'd like to, but since I don't even have it working for
> myself, I'm not really in a position to help out.  I get so much spam
> nowadays that I hardly even use email anymore.  I notice that most
> requests for help to the mailing list are going unanswered as well.
> * I'm still interested in playing with Java virtualization, and I'm very
> excited about OpenJDK coming out.  JRuby looks really interesting to me.
>  For my own projects, I'm guessing I'd probably use OpenJDK in
> preference to Kaffe in the future, since it's likely to be a lot less
> effort to get it working the way I want it to.
> * That said, I think Kaffe has been a seminal project in terms of
> getting free Java off the ground, and I'd hate to see it die.  A lot of
> interesting projects have used Kaffe as a starting point.
> * I imagine that in the future, people will most likely look to OpenJDK
> as a starting point to add their enhancements.  Is there still a role
> for Kaffe to play here?
> * I think Kaffe probably is still the simplest full JVM implementation
> that isn't just an interpreter.  It's been used for all manner of exotic
> porting projects that might just be too hard to do using something like
> OpenJDK or gcj.
> * Kaffe is licensed under the GPLv2.  So is OpenJDK.  But Kaffe doesn't
> require copyright assignment, and we're pretty open.  Sun doesn't have
> to vette the code going into Kaffe.  That suggests that perhaps we could
> merge in large parts of OpenJDK, and provide a place for people to do
> really experimental stuff that Sun isn't going to permit in their
> version.  Is this something we should consider?
> * In other words, should we go big?  And merge in as much stuff as
> possible.  That could be problematic, since Kaffe is already pretty
> huge.  Maybe we could adopt more of a "distribution" approach, and break
> things into a bunch of modules that are all developed to work together?
> * Or maybe we should try to stay small?  And just try to be an easily
> hackable, simple virtual machine with a crude compiler framework, and
> nothing else?  That would involve jettisoning or spinning out a lot of
> the integration work that's been done over the last few years, I think.
> * I think we've been trending towards the "go big" direction for some
> time, with all the Classpath merging and other projects, and the core
> has been somewhat neglected.  It's been really good to support Classpath
> this way, and it's helped to get a lot of Java stuff integrated into
> Debian.  On the other hand, I think the build itself is just too
> intimidating.  It's massive.  I think most prospective developers would
> probably give up before getting it to build the first time.  Our
> configure scripts are almost an operating system in and of themselves.  :-)
> * If anybody is currently doing something interesting with Kaffe, or has
> any aspirations for it, please send some email to the list!  We need the
> ideas and the traffic!
> Cheers,
>  - Jim
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> End of kaffe Digest, Vol 34, Issue 5
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